re Cheese!
What I'd like to know is why cast familiar commercial faces as plain ol' folk for supposed candid moments? How much footage of people going "Hey weren't you in that _____ spot?" ended up on the cutting room floor?
04:07 p.m.
mmmmmmm....cheese
those cheese ads crack me up.
what can i say? i'm easily amused.
cheese, so funny.
04:06 p.m.
cheese
I'm pretty sure that Rose and her partner at MacLaren are doing those fabulous cheese ads!
04:07 p.m.
Cheese!
I need to know this: What agency does the cheese ads where they go on candid camera and confuse and frighten old people in diners and grocery lineups by stealing their cheese?
04:01 p.m.
Oops
"Mats! Your Mummy's calling."
02:55 p.m.
Jingles
"Green P Parking's for you!"
02:52 p.m.
removing those annoying jingles
have someone hit you repeatedly with a good thick design annual until the jingle is gone
03:47 p.m.
Bite Bite Stop vs. Hockey Mom
Who decided that radio has to be crap from now on? And how do I get the fucking "Pick 3, Daily Keno and Winner Take All" jingle out of my head? Heroin doesn't seem to be helping. ...wayfd
03:33 p.m.
Top ten gaffe
Oh, not to worry, I'm sure five more will be mentioned here soon enough...
03:37 p.m.
ROM
Who let the intern write the copy for the new ROM exhibit posters I'm forced to see in the subway?
03:25 p.m.
The sixth
How about the coma-inducing "So Simple" egg spots. So quiet as to be inaudible. Who knew eggs could be so boring?
03:00 p.m.
Top Ten?
Where's the other five you crusty old venerial desease with feet?
02:02 p.m.
Wanda's Top Ten Offenders
Right then. It's time to stir the pot. Here's my top five most annoying ads o' the week:
1. Toyota Dealers' 'Lets Humiliate the Inuit' Event
2. Bite, Bite STOP! Bite, Bite STOP!
3. New Kit Kat Billboards. Oy vey.
4. Milk Gives
5. Mix 99.9 Graffiti Billboards
02:44 p.m.
Wanda
You said it sister. Lately it's been easy listening advertising and it's dull. We need a little more 'bitch slappin' and a little less "I'm currently looking for work and need a little advice..." shit. Wanda, you rancid old whore, have you seen the 'sunshine in a McDonald's bag' commercial? Even when it was 'Eatons uncrates the sun' it sucked. Clearly, when Cossette won the business by buying a franchise they had to finance it by selling their soul.
01:40 p.m.
Advertising 101
Yes it is. but occasionally it is Flaming 101 and Bitchslapping 101. On rare occasions it is Spam(tm) 101. As well, sometimes it's advertising 99.9, todays' ad hits and yesterdays' ad classics... -Wanda
02:29 p.m.
on-line education
Is this advertising 101?
2:18 p.m.
Chunder
If I hear the "Bite Bite Chew" Nicorette radio one more time, I'm gonna spew. Not only is it insipid, it's being aired at crushing weight levels, so you can't escape it. It's a prime example of either a) the hand of the client on a campaign or b) a weak creative team. I suspect both of the above.
01:04 p.m.
Hit the road
I have seen the CD tell a president who has in turn told the AE to take a hike. I have also even seen the President get told to take a hike. Speaking of which, has anyone seen or heard from Chris Stavenjord lately? I hope he's canvassing newspapers door-to-door.
01:16 p.m.
roles
no shit crayolaking. but surely maintaining brand integrity is also part of the job. i think we all know what they should be doing... it's just that there are very few who actually do. now i certainly agree that ae's are pretty much courriers but the heavy ones are so far worked into agency renumeration and power structures that they walk over most creatives (the ones who don't let them often have to walk themselves, not true?) and as for cd's, well, when was the last time you heard a cd actually tell an ae to go sell the work or get lost?
packin' bags
The Role Account People Have in Killing An Ad
The only say account people should have regarding an ad should be, "Yes, it's on strategy" or "no, it's not on strategy". At least that's what my girlfriend said. Tell them to fuck off when they start making colour suggestions. It's all subjective as far as things like that go, but that's why writers have their jobs, art directors have theirs and suits have theirs. When was the last time a creative told a suit that he didn't like a copy line in a brief? Anyone hungry?
12:39 p.m.
re: screenwriting
Who the fuck let Lew Hunter in here?
11:29 a.m.
Roles
The CD is there to encourage you to do good work, to let the agency know what's going on in the creative department, and to push to get your good ideas across or to help make them better based on their experience. The AE is as I call it a "Highly-paid courier" whos job is to go to the client with your work and sell your creative to them. If they don't like your creative, tough shit! That's the CDs job. If they can't sell it for their agency that likes the creative, then they haven't done their job. Any AE that tells you in a meeting that they don't like the creative, tell them to go get their client a coffee. -Crayolaking
11:14 a.m.
pizza poop
van rocking spot = ouch.
11:20 a.m.
sympathy…
My CD is my account director. No word of a lie. It's their final call - I wonder why I exist, my opinion means diddly.
10:56 a.m.
Pizza Pops Poo Poo
The old 'fucking in the van' misdirect? Stop the rumble? Who at Leo is responsible for that shit?
09:56 a.m.
AEs CDs and crapping on work
Yeah, guys i'm going through the same stuff too. Only with my CD intead of any AEs (primarily because our AEs are shite). But, while it sounds daft, i'm wondering, too, what's the role of the CD? I've always been under the impression that his/her job was to 'direct' the creative, not to dictate it. I've got a new boss now and he just tells us how it should be written. He's not willing to listen to why we chose to do one thing or another. I feel as if I'm simply writing his work, as opposed to creating anything of my own. Am I an Arse ? and this is how it's supposed to be. or is this guy just a dictatorial twat? dicsuss.
--spark
10:40 a.m.
AE's
have had and still do, very similar experiences. and agree totally. posted a Q earlier about the role of CD's in agencies today, prompted by exactly the point you've made... is anyone else wondering exactly what the creatives' remit is, too, nowadays?
opinions puleeese…
I beg to get response on this one. How much power should an account person have to say yeah or nay to an ad. I mean it shouldn't be enough for them just to say "I don't like it" And as far as colours and overall layout/concept and copy goes isn't that the expertise of the creative team? I can see if it's off strategy but if they don't think it looks or sounds right isn't that the CD's job? I'm seriously pondering this because it happens all the time on every job I'm on. Is it just me?
10:21 a.m.
Pitchin' It
I for one would love to have overheard the team pitching the creative for the new Audi spots - the ones that look like they were shot in Morocco..."so we've got this idea see..."
09:44 a.m.
re: wow!
You're right. I'm sorry. I shouldn't use bad words and criticize anyone. I should tolerate tolerance. Come to think of it, I shouldn't berade bad ads at all, I should find the poor hacks that did the bad ads and give them a hug. I should applaud the people at Padulo for lowering the bar, heck let's not raise our expectations, we'll only end up disappointed. Next time I see a bad puppy spot which is already a rip off of another bad puppy spot, I should take into consideration all the hoops those guys had to jump through to produce a rip-off of a bad ad. From now on, I declare that all my teabagging entries will be an embrace of my brothers in arms, like a group therapy thing. NOT. Fuck off you hack.
08:31 a.m.
Best suit experience: The day a new account guy started at my agency (I was in my first year in the business as a writer), walked into my office, introduced himself and asked me if I wanted to see his reel. It had some amazing, very award winning work on it. Good lesson to learn. You could tell he was so proud of the work and really saw himself as being critical to it (as every good suit should). Now he's an agency prez. Go figure.
Worst suit experience: Having an account director UNSELL work in front of the client. I mean, we presented and the client loved the stuff. Then said suit then chimed in with "Guys, I just don't think we're there yet". Way to show that the agency's behind the work. Now he's no longer in the biz at all. Go figure.
09:17 a.m.
Re: abuse free zone
Wow. Did you have a shitty childhood or something?
03:19 p.m.
Re: Abuse-Free-Zone
Fuck you. Fuck you and your (hippy love-in, let's all be friends and not criticize each other just because we make crappy advertising, afterall we're only human and being Canadian we should be nice to each other even though we're polluting the airwaves with mind numbing shit that never wins any awards which are all politically motivated anyway) shit. Fuck off. The more we rip into each other, the more likely we'll be ashamed of doing bad ads and the more likely we'll attempt to do better. If you don't like all the bad words and tough love, go away. Methinks.
08:13 a.m.
To the Creative Folk out there
1. What's your best suit experience.
2. What's your worst suit experience.
And I ain't talkin' about clothes, people.
08:28 a.m.
Survey Response
If it's an option, I'd like to make this a no-abuse zone. Many ads deserve to be villified, but not the poor folks who made them and now have to live with them. I've been there, and it ain't fun.
08:09 a.m.
Seven Minutes
It took 7 minutes for the real assholes to show up, pthd. Pretty slow. They must have been busy working on another Bad Boy ad. ...wayfd
Survey SAYS!
Richard Dawson, er, I mean Wanda here... just putting out my little feelers and asking - what do you folks want from this page? What can I do to make your experience more pleasant? What would you like to see added? Deleted? (Why do I hear 27 clowns saying 'you, wanda' in unison?). Should I run it off my own server and thereby have more bells and whistles? Pictures, multiple forums, etc. Something like ad-land, but much much lamer? (DaBitch obviously is a freakish web prodigy who never sleeps and I just cant compete with that). You can post your ideas here or just email me, whichever you like.
09:58 p.m.
To the person asking for the definition of USP
I've found a website that answers literally hundreds of marketing questions (including the one about Unique Selling Propositions). You'll find it at
http://www.draytonbird.com/frames.asp
You'll have to take some of the content with a grain of salt, because the guy who wrote it has his own agenda (he's trying to lure clients to his direct response agency), but there's a lot of useful stuff there nonetheless.
07:21 p.m.
I think the quality of work you get freelancing equals the amount of time/reputation/awards you have in the business before you set out your own shingle. Through a stupid series of events, I found myself freelancing after just two years in. The work tended to suck and all that kept me going was the thought that if I kept adding spec to my book and worked my ass off I'd have to impress someone somewhere and all would be well again. It worked out, and I made good coin in the meantime. That being said, I know a few people who are awsome creatives (who've been in the business a while and won the necessary hardware) that just choose to freelance. And I also know that they turn down job offers all the time. And they make piles of cash. And they take extended holidays to go far, far away. And when they get back they pick up the phone and resume working. Almost depressing, really.
05:37 p.m.
all the assholes but you pthd.
05:25 p.m.
My, my, my
All of the assholes must be off today...nice to see some good inteligent banter...pthd
05:18 p.m.
Re: Scooby
Unlike a lot of people in this room, I don't care if you dis freelancers. I don't care if you dis ME. We all have opinions and we all have the right to post them. I'm glad you're happier working f/t. Someone's got to do it. cm
04:55 p.m.
scooby say...
hey dude... I hope you don't think for a minute that I was dissing freelancers... I was saying that I just couldn't handle it myself... The guys I know who I'm working with right now are awesome creatives who kick the shit out of anything they get thrown their way and can handle the inconsistencies from a cash flow perspective... they have it both ways cuz right now a freelancer at Maclaren is a licence to print money.
04:48 p.m.
My freelancing 2¢
I've been freelancing for about 4 years. Among my circle of freelancing friends, I'm the rookie. The one thing all of us agree on: we like it. We like being selective, we like the freedom, and we like the job offers we keep getting and turning down. Life isn't all big agencies and big clients, kids. And freelance work isn't all shit that we're ashamed of. I keep an up-to-date book (well, maybe 6 months from up-to-date) and about half is work I freelanced. Things aren't always rosy, I'll admit. But things are way better than the shit I was given when I toiled full time. cm
04:26 p.m.
oooooooohhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!
04:05 p.m.
I find it strangely amusing that everyone in this industry seems to have a "the first time I got canned" story. Am I right, or are there a lucky few that don't have a tarnished work history?
03:57 p.m.
right.
"Scriptwriting is unique. It's the highest paid form of writing yet it's also the easiest.
Your literary skills aren't important - a film script is mostly dialogue with some scene descriptions. What matters most are your ideas. If you're a creative person, this is the business for you!
You can write a screenplay in 3 weeks, writing just 30 minutes a day. I'm serious. Just 30 minutes a day actually writing.
The rest of the day you'll be ...incubating. That's when you get your best ideas. That's what creates great screenplays. "
04:00 p.m.
ooooooooohhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!
04:00 p.m.
Learning
I was unceremoniously ousted from an agency a while back and decided "fuck it, this business sucks and treats people like shit and that's not a life I liked anyway so I'll just go freelance and make money and whatever."
I learned two things from this. First was I'm not cut out for freelance because the constant spectre of "what will I do when this gig ends" was hanging inescapably around my head like a bathtub fart. Even though I was turning good bucks, I was always worried about how I was going to make next month's rent. A friend told me that if you're gonna go freelance you have to be in it for at least a year of potential trouseer soiling while you establish a base of clients who see you as a go-to guy.
The bigger lesson I learned though was more of a reminder - I'm back in an agency now, and everytime a piece of shit lands on my desk, I try to remember how when I was out there I would have been happy to pick up whatever scrap I could get to pay the bills and that my job is to sift through the garbage and try to make those pieces of crap into gold.
It helps. Because these days, as we all know, there's not that many dream accounts out there.
Sorry. I'm done. - scooby
03:47 p.m.
Bell Boys?
When was the last time Bell did a decent fucking ad. Open on kid playing video game. Enter computer bookmark on screen to subtly tell us we're watching a Bell ad. Bad banter between kid and dad, followed by bad dream sequence, followed by by bad caller display sell. Children, you can do better than this. They use to do good ads. That was until you introduced the Dweeb campaign and it's been a downward spiral ever since. Methinks.
01:36 p.m.
Finkler
Pheonix or dead horse?
02:31 p.m.
finkler
yeah
01:53 p.m.
finkler
yeah
01:53 p.m.
Finkler?
01:31 p.m.
for me, it's just the uncertainty. oh....and cheap agencies that think your rate is too high, when it's comparable or lower than most of your type out there.
09:53 a.m.
Freelancing
Freelancing is all about the money and living with the hope that maybe they'll like you so much they'll keep you on.
As for a career...
One headhunter told me that once someone has freelanced for longer than a year they become really hard to place with an agency. Surprisingly, he said that there was no logical reason for it.
12:34 p.m.
freelancing
my experience was that it's pretty much a different job. you're there to turn things around professionally and efficently, but flair is not often required. besides lead times tended to be much tighter so not much time for thought rather straight into execution. a lot of style over substence kinda thing. ok if you can take it but if you're ideas driven it's very frustrating. also, generally doesn't add to your book, in fact may even take a little denial of authorship.the money just about evened out but got caught having to do tax returns, etc. not too difficult but time consuming and a bloody pain in the ass.
Question for "The Right Job"
What did you hate about freelancing?
The uncertainty?
The cold calling?
The quality of the assignments?
The haggling over rates?
The waiting to get paid?
All of the above?
12:18 p.m.
Looking
I've been out for over a month and I'm just getting my leave-behinds together. Leave-behind books are a must. No way can any of us afford to leave our big portfolios sitting in some admin. assistants office for weeks on end.
I agree that it's a question of being in the right place at the right time. Are headhunters a waste of time? I have two on the go and so far nothing ... which leads me to believe that there may be some truth in that - either way, you can't sit around hoping that the phone will ring. Proactivity is the name of the game here.
What about self promotional pieces? Do CD's make them into paper airplanes? I'm contemplating doing one up but I'm afraid that it could be a colossal waste of money. The work in your book should speak for itself shouldn't it?
-DMK
12:11 p.m.
finda nexta jobba
it generally takes as long as it takes - you can never tell in this crazy business. it's just tough when an offer comes, though. do you take the first one? do you stall a bit? do you call your mom?
11:49 a.m.
the right job
was off for just over 6 months but picked up a reasonable ammount of freelance - tho despised almost every second.
Thanks alot!
I'm also amazed so far by the response! I was expecting "Maybe you suck" or something like that. That's why I wanted serious answers from people who know they're good and just want the right fit. Waiting for my last three positions I was off the following...1 week, 8 months, and 5 months. I'm glad to know it's not just me. I have also found that Headhunters are usually a waste of time and it's all just being in the right place at the right time with getting in. As for email portfolios, I find they don't really work because it's better to leave your book in the CDs face for a while. That way if someone walks out the door that week, you're the first one they're thinking of. Thanks again and I'd love to hear more about other's experiences on this. How long were you off and what did you do in the meantime?
-Crayolaking
10:16 a.m.
Re: Warm & Fuzzy
No playground witticisms yet? Give it time. It's not even 10 yet. Re: disposible books: even better -- post your portfolio on a website. Preferably your own (i.e. your own domain name). It is, after all, 2001. ...wayfd
09:45 a.m.
Warm & Fuzzy
in response to the response to CrayolaKing: Well Done!! what a great change to see someone respond with intelligence and kindness to another's request for advice/help. I'm shocked that no-one signed on to say "Fuck you, ya useless hack" or some other such playground witticism. nice to see that we can actually have a grown up conversation here. Yay. And as for the letter thingie, please let me know the response (that was my idea earlier) and let us know if they still try to fuck you up later.
--spark
09:35 a.m.
pounding the pavement
Disposable books is a brilliant must have. Make loads of copies. It might even be worth considering a digital printrun of your work. It's fairly cheap and you can carelessly leave copies behind everywhere around town.
03:35 p.m.
Reply to CrayolaKing
Please don't get down on yourself. From what I've heard/experienced, a focussed search for a job at a good agency can take about 6 months (not including the several weeks it can take to get your book into shape). But then, you could get a call next week that makes all your search & book preparations redundant. So in the meantime, you need to stay sane and positive. First of all, make disposable leave-behind copies of your book. That way, you'll never have to leave your master book in the hands of people who don't respect what's gone into it. Second, remember that creative directors are every bit as desperate for the right person as you are for the right job. They routinely pay $25,000 in headhunter fees to hire people at your level. So if you're thinking you have to crawl into their offices begging, that's just plain wrong...and it will hurt you in interviews, because you won't be showing the level of assertiveness and confidence they're seeking. Anyway, good luck. Please let us know how it works out.
09:17 p.m.
Time Frame
I have a question for all intermediate (5 years plus) creatives with what CDs consider a good book, who have worked for the bigger agencies, and earned an above average salary.
Today, with voice mail, CDs that don't return calls, and interviews that basically mean dropping off your book without getting it back for weeks on end - If one of us is leaving an agency (not because we did shitty work, but because of cutbacks, loss of accounts, or we just don't like it here anymore, etc.), how long on average should we expect to be pounding the pavement? Thanks.
- Crayolaking
06:46 p.m.
Good idea - that letter
I'm in the process of leaving my agency together with nine other creatives due to cutbacks. I'm also in the middle of a really nice project that I will not be able to complete before I go. Since I have left agencies and seen my name removed from completed projects when they later enter awards (films had my name on them in the Clio but not i Cannes for instance) I think I'll take whomever said it up on thier idea to write a letter to the agency before shit happens instead of coming whining afterwards.
The AE on the project keeps insisting in meeting and such that "it's HER idea and I want everyone to know"... But then again, he is leaving too..
01:27 p.m.
(sp)
execution.. Ok, I kant späll. I give up.
10:26 p.m.
Does this count?
Ok - who asked for examples? A friend of mine (whom I actually really do know for real) is an Illustrator. His book rocks and it pains me that I never use him, but he inspires me whenever he comes by to show it. He had a series of illustrations made on heat-sensitive paper in his book two-three years back. When he showed it at GGT in London a girl there said:" This is great - don't be suprised if you see it one day". Later that year she won the D&AD award with a heatsensitive postcard. Headline read" hold your hads to this" or something like that and copy said something about "homesless people can't even heat this card because they are so cold blah blah..".
In that case the execustion was stolen - not the idea. But it was shitty that the illustrator constantly had to hear: Ah, heatsensitive ey - like the gold winning GGT ad for the homeless magazine" until he finally removed his original work from his book.
10:18 p.m.
I've had spec work ripped off. I used to take the stuff out of my book, put another one in, and go about my business. Now I get mad.
10:14 p.m.
hee hee.
Kelso won large format single last night at the billis...
04:08 p.m.